In the Tao of Physics mystics understand the roots but not the branches scientists understand the branches but not the roots. Would you care to expand on that com
Mystics are able to access areas that science cannot. Mystics have experience of the ineffable. They find themselves in altered states of consciousness where the environments are totally alien to the objective surrounds of the physical plane. From this they understand they everything is interconnected, that all is one, that all knowledge is available. There is no beginning, there is no end. Everything is equal.
Science on the other hand purely studies the objective world. It recognises that everything that we see and touch is made up of atoms and molecules that upon further investigation turn out to be virtual particles which appear and disappear from who knows where. Everything turns out to be waves, radiation, energy in motion, all these words in an effort to describe something which we cannot fully understand.
Yet science never asks “How does the pattern come together”. It talks about evolution, of things arising by chance and yet at the same time insists that the human being is conscious, has reason, logic, imagination, can design and create. Surely where did the design and creation ability arise from in the first place to create the earth, which is supposed to have come from a big bang and everything else appeared randomly as hot energy cooled and coalesced into various portions and objective reality and somehow from that arose the reasoning mind of the human being and instinctive minds of all lesser creatures. This is hubris in the extreme and really is not worth discussing.
So if where we come from and have all knowledge available to us and appear to be able to do whatever we want, what is the reason, why do we need to come here?
As we have discussed before, if you found, by merely using your imagination, you could create any outcome you wish then what is the point of even entering into any form of competition if you realise that basically if everybody used the same techniques of investigation there will be stalemate in all cases. So, just like you handicap at various sports, then consciousness creates environments with certain handicaps so that you cannot just influence the outcomes of any particular events. You must work at it, you must develop logic, reason, persistence, desire, the will to achieve and from thence derive the satisfaction of having controlled and directed your own abilities. Therefore, you can have pride, shall we say, in your achievements whereas before without the handicaps you merely focus and it was! You can always return to this, of course, and for a while it is quite nice then again you decide, “Let’s see if I can?”
Now, we know that ancient philosophies have long held that consciousness is the basis of all realities. Do you agree with that?
Again, we wish you to think this through for yourself. Scientists today, many of whom have had to resort to the admission that the ancient sages, the mystics were probably right thousands of years ago when they stated that everything arose from the one, and the one was the consciousness, the awareness, the “I AM”. It was given some form of personalised anthropological name by some, but others just gave it the description of the void, everything arising from the void. Science followed that with the Big Bang theory which asserts that everything arose from nothing. Wouldn’t it be much easier to say that the Universe was thought into existence?
Therefore, do you have to be conscious to think? We cannot say whether consciousness ever comes together and acts as one. We feel, from our point of view, that conscious groups [together] in many areas to create its own particular reality. To be enjoyed by those who wish to participate in that particular reality. Now whether this all forms part, to coin a phrase, of “God’s tapestry”, we are not in a position to comment upon.
What would you say is the difference between a medium and a mystic?
Again, language. A medium has generally discovered that they have the ability to tune in to another reality or certainly be able to still their mind to allow another reality to communicate. Another dimension, another frequency of being. A mystic, almost certainly, if they are having their experiences which others deem credible, if they turn their focus towards providing the service that mediums do, will probably be able to do the same, because they, again, experience information from other realities. Now, just as in a lucid dream, they find themselves in those realities but who is to say that mediums do not also have lucid dreams. You can call the mystic’s experience a waking dream say but, again, how do you differentiate between sleep and a waking dream?
Einstein said “Time is not all what it seems, it does not flow in only one direction and the future exists simultaneously with the past”. Would you care to expand on that?
This is an area where using the language of the physical plane makes it extremely difficult to give any understanding. Simply because the language of the physical plane derives from a time based system. You can only approach this by seeing yourself as something peculiarly non-deteriorating, we will not say indestructible, but non-deteriorating. So let us take the case of gold. You imagine that gold appears to last forever, does not seem to lose its substance over time, as do most other materials, and now imagine that everything would be made of similar materials. In other words whatever you consider that holds the atoms of gold together would also hold the atoms of everything that you know of together. Then there would be no atrophy, nothing would change, it would always be the same. Would you agree?
Gold does wear away doesn’t it?
Gold left sitting..
I see what you mean. Not touching anything else.
You can always abrade anything. Imagine everything… you must follow…expand your mind because we are trying to give you an analogy you can understand. If you wish to bring…..
I was just clarifying.
You are talking about what you perceive not your actions. If everything was made of a non- atrophying material, that doesn’t lose its shine, doesn’t lose its form, doesn’t lose any of its capabilities, then nothing around you would change. You must realise that you cannot suddenly introduce, ah, what about the clouds moving, and things like this. You must look at this as totally static, nothing is changing. But then you move your focus and as you move your focus you then will see what appears to you to be movement, or time but when you move your focus back you will find that nothing has changed. Are you with me? Would you say then that time has passed?
No, because you would not realise that it had.
So, when you look to the future it was there, but when you looked to the past you had previously seen, it was still there. So, you will conclude, the past, the future are co-existing. So all you do is you explore and investigate and what happens? It expands your consciousness. You expand your awareness of what there is to experience. Now, from the physical plane you will say time passed but remember when you are in the sort of dimension that we have just described you will not have invented the concept of time (or decay) because everything is still there. You simply look at this, look at that, look at the other. Now, again, let us go back to your scientists. Your scientists say energy cannot be destroyed only transformed, and we know that energy appears from nowhere and goes back into nowhere. This is electrons, so called, changing orbit or virtual waves appearing and disappearing etc. Now, so work on the same basis, but the underlying basis of everything doesn’t change. It merely forms and un-forms, forms and un-forms, in different places, we call it different places, in different fashions but it doesn’t change. So, time does not exist for consciousness if you say that consciousness is the basis of everything. If you say that electrical waves, or quantum waves, or whatever, your various other waves, that people keep inventing names for are infinite, are always there, and you are saying the same thing about your world made of gold and other non-decaying material. So, whatever is…. This is somewhat difficult to explain in that we can say that the whole basis of form is latent, it is potential. Now, as to whether all has been formed is a moot point because one simply has to look to see whether it exists or someone else has thought of it and it is not quite as easy as it is made out to be. But one can easily agree that the potential everything has always existed and will always exist. But just as you only care to inhabit certain comfortable parts of the world and most of your other fellow inhabitants of the earth are of the same inclination, then you do not inhabit hot deserts or the freezing mountains, you choose your locations. What we are saying is you choose where you tend to focus and what you want to experience. Therefore there may be many, many forms and events that have not yet attracted sufficient consciousness to make them manifest and yet they exist. It depends on what you call existence, they may not exist on the physical plane but they exist in the plane of imagination, the plane of design, although they cannot be experienced physically until they are manifest in the physical plane. Are you with me?
Now, just for a moment imagine that consciousness, a group of consciousness, decided that why don’t we put together a plan for a dinosaur once more, let’s take the dinosaur plan and make one on earth. What would be the purpose of that and for how long would it exist? It would be in the wrong environment, it would not fit in with the overall scheme of things and it would be quickly destroyed. So, would you go to all this effort…
If it was going to be destroyed that quickly.
And also because you had already focused upon that area.
Done it before.
Yes. That had been explored. That doesn’t mean to say that it still doesn’t exist. Because just as you expect to live on, so did the dinosaurs and so they do. But they have chosen their own habitats.
Yes. Just not where we are at the moment.
Just even take your present day situations and where even humans are choosing not to be in certain places.
At the moments humans are tending to migrate. Lots of humans are trying to migrate to the same places. Can you tell us anything about how this situation is going to unfold? This has digressed a bit, it just came to mind!
It ever was, from the beginning all creatures, upon the land, had to move with the seasons and many still do. They had to move with the seasons because the food available changes with the seasons. So, if you are in a cold area you move to a warmer area where food is available because the other area is now, for example, several meters deep in snow and there is nothing available. Now, man is just another creature who wishes to live in a comfortable fashion. Now, if an elephant is eating grass and it sees over this fence that there are, let us call them “goodies”, to avoid having to get into descriptions, a wonderful cornucopia of nutritious food. Do you think it will not pull the fence down, wander in there, and take its fill. Ask yourself, why do you put man into a different category? They have the same hunger and desire to fulfil their longings as the animals. So as they migrate towards better areas, conflicts will, I am afraid, undoubtedly arise as they fight over the share of the available. Things move around, they ebb and they flow and as one wave moves in others move out for better and more secure environments.
So, if you wish to have some kind of prediction then you will see polarisations. You will see happening in the Western world what has previously happened in such as South Africa and other areas of the world where privilege has to co-exist with non-privilege, privilege has to fortify itself to avoid being eradicated by the non-privileged.
Yes. Thank you. Bertrand Russell said “there is a better way of gaining information than through the physical senses”. What would you say is the best way to gain information?
You have come to the physical plane in order that you can explore your own creative capabilities. That does not mean just the creation of form but creation of ideals, creation of your personality, your control of desire, your persistence etc. etc. There are a few who decide or remember that somehow I can access a different reality. They have flashes of inspiration. They have meditative and altered consciousness experiences whereby they suddenly understand or suddenly know. Some experience telepathy, some experience seeing at a distance, some just experience a sudden awareness simply through focusing. These are better ways of obtaining knowledge but they are relatively haphazard. The knowledge accessed is not always correct, cannot be, in general, focused in such a way that you get the exact information you desire and so, in general, you rely upon your tried and tested methods which everybody will agree upon. Plus which, if you say ”this is my source” and others can access the same source, they will agree with you and your project will advance. But if you say “I have meditated on this and I feel that this is what should be done” and it is not something that can be logically deduced or reasoned out then you won’t get much of a hearing, because if you can’t prove your thesis few will go with you. One or two may see the vision or resonate with it but in general they will say “well, that’s not quite good enough you know, you cannot give us a rational basis for your pronouncement” and yet it may be perfectly valid. Remember, as we said, did you focus in the right place? Did you even know where to focus? Which is why so many predictions do not come to pass. Some do, some don’t. So, yes of course, there are better ways of obtaining information but can they be validated? But others, to whom you wish to give this information and them to believe it, will they question your source and will they discredit your source.
Certainly some will try. What about the fundamental unity of things?
We are once again in a circular framework whereby if all is one and all its parts are connected to each other, in which case, it is one of course. All the parts make up the whole. We are talking about consciousness here. Everything is connected, everything is unified. Does that answer you?
Yes. Bertrand Russell also said “all evil is mere appearance”.
Of course, everything is potential. Evil is merely a judgement. It is merely deception and that is made depending on the environment that you have chosen to inhabit and the build-up over the, we will have to use time to explain this, build-up over the millennia of human codes of survival and co-operation. So if you go back once more to where most humans were cannibals or could be, let us assume that most were at one stage. They didn’t differentiate between killing another human and killing a deer. Now, did they think it was evil to kill?
Would they have thought it evil to take whatever was available? But one would try to stop the other one taking it. Much as you can watch dogs fight over a piece of meat but neither of them thinks the other is evil. Evil is merely in the mind. It is something you do not wish to be a part of.
Yes. So, in the world at the moment it does seem that a vast number of women are badly treated, compared with men. So why do these things happen? I know that it is all an illusion but it is very hard to understand why these things happen.
In your own lifetime you have seen the status of women change dramatically from there being virtually no women in government in many, many countries, even up until recently where they are not allowed to vote even. But it is changing, has been changing, will change. You now have many women in positions of power, leading countries etc. Again this is not something, an area that we wish to pronounce upon. You are existing in the physical plane. You have chosen the time, shall we say, or the environment that you wish to experience and
That’s what you are doing. Yes.
So if you had come into this life several hundred years ago your lot as a woman, wherever you were, would be infinitely worse than it is today. So again, you chose the experience that you desire. If we take the old portrayal of life as a play, it is much easier to stand above the play and see all the actors playing their parts, knowing they will all return from whence they came and compare their notes, their experiences and decide what next to focus upon.
Now, Stanislav Grof said: “Modern consciousness research reveals that our psyches have no real and absolute boundaries on the contrary they are part of an infinite field of consciousness that encompasses all that there is.”
Once more everything, we repeat what we have already stated, everything, every consciousness is connected to every other consciousness by various pathways and all these consciousnesses form the whole. Now, again the word whole implies a boundary and, of course, there is no boundary but once more this is something that neither you nor we have yet been able to comprehend. But, everything can be connected to everything else simply by focusing through, as you have had your intimations of this from your remote viewers and such as Edgar Cayce and other seers that physicality is no barrier to consciousness. So, you have merely limited your experience to the physical plane in the main. You have had your viewers move their consciousness billions of miles into outer space but you simply do not know of other dimensions in which to focus. So, it is virtually… you can only look at your physical plane because that’s what you are in. Once you come outside the physical plane then you are aware of more, but you are still not aware of everything but it exists. It is present. This is the meaning of the word infinity, there is always more to focus upon. If you bring yourself back to the fact that you have conscious awareness which may be an awareness based within a group so although you feel you are singularity you are experiencing a multiplicity but thinking you are a singularity, in other words you are one point of awareness, but in order to manifest you may need to be any number you can think of, points of awareness working together. Do you understand?
William Blake said, “if the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite”, as you have just mentioned infinity, “man has closed himself up so he sees all things through narrow chinks of his cavern.” Perhaps you would like to expand on that.
For a reason.
I was going to say, “Would we be able to cope if our doors of perception were clean?”
Again, if you have restricted your senses to those to be used appropriately in a physical environment, then you have chosen the necessary senses and the efficiency for those senses to enable you to operate satisfactorily in that environment. Now, we are back to horses for courses. Again, if you wanted to cleanse your gates of perception then the physical environment would disappear from view. It would not be a case of not being able to cope because you would drop those senses off. You have narrowed them, slits in the cave, whatever you want to call it, for a purpose. So, removing the restriction would then remove the environment and you would be seeing a totally different environment.
Would you not still see that environment as well? The original environment, the one that you have closed down. Would you not see that as well?
Now, you can see yourself on the earth, so again we have to discuss this in terms of physical limitations. Let us assume, we’ll do several here, so you are watching one program, you switch to the other, you have one instrument can you see both programs? No. You are on the earth and you switch your consciousness to being on a star ten million light years away, can you see what is going on in the earth? No. So in space, in frequency, and you can do your own exercise in time and you will see that you can only focus in one reality, in any one moment, but you caveat that with the fact that, as we have described before, you can then sequentially focus on as many as you can handle and to you, thinking in physical terms, they will be existing at once. Which indeed they are of course. But your present capabilities are only able to focus on one. But, of course, once you understand that you can focus on several things at once then you will be able to do so. But in effect you are basically keeping up with several environments at once. Do you understand? As we have explained before, because the intervals between your focuses are so small that just like the frames of film going in front of you, there may only be sixty frames a second but it seems continuous to you. So, we have been through this analogy before. So, as we keep repeating, it is very difficult to explain using physical plane analogies to describe non-physical environments.
Now, Grof and Halifax say, “The universe is seen as an ever unfolding drama of endless adventures in consciousness, very much as in the sense of the Hindu Leela or divine faith.” You would obviously agree with that.
Two words. Infinite potential says it all.
Would you like to expand on theory of morphic fields, implicate and explicate orders and the holomovement?
Morphic fields again is a term to try to explain how one consciousness accesses the information arising from the experience of another consciousness. It basically posits that all mental experience is recorded, held, agglomerates in a field of information holding energy. Like a big computer in the sky you might say. So when anybody thinking about something, we come to the internet again, presses in the subject then all information pertaining to that subject is then downloaded. So, an information repository available to all. Of course, we are back again to seek and ye shall find, or ask and it shall be given to you. It is focus, focus on what you are doing. Start to wonder what can happen and suddenly a thought, an idea will come into your mind. Or did your mind go to where the thought was, where the idea was? So with the postulation of a morphic field you can decide for yourself the process of information transmission or acquisition.
Implicate and explicate orders. We start with infinite potential. Consciousness imagines what might be, certain imaginings are reviewed, examined and let go, others are held for consideration and then through interconnectedness we ascertain how many others are interested in this particular imagined form, event etc. So when a crowd gets together and the enthusiasm mounts eventually one consciousness or more says ”can we do it?” and the crowd roars YES! And they set to and they organise. This is having to use your rationale as to how things happen on the physical plane but if you think that you are the same person and consciousness in whatever plane you are currently focused in would you not think you would use the same……we hesitate to say,the same methods of thinking, because the different environments entail different methods of thinking, but in general you can only be aware of who you are and you can only experience your desired experience by carrying out all your activities with other consciousnesses. Otherwise you will simply be “meditating’.
And what about holomovement?
Another word. You are talking the attempted description of everything being everywhere, everything happening everywhere. Again, it is very difficult to explain a conception which may actually have only a partial basis in reality. All information is available to anybody, to any consciousness. Everything is interconnected. If everything is indeed, interconnected then it is a hologram because every idea is available to everybody else. Now, hologram denotes space, take the space away and you have no hologram. You only have information, ideas, morphic fields again if you wish. An infinite field of information encompassing all the ideas, all the blueprints, all the patterns, all the scripts, all the music, everything you care to name plus much that you have no awareness of. It is all accessible to any consciousness that knows where to look or desires where to look is led from one to the other but just as we said you cannot see everything at once even though it all exists at once.